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Politicians Lie, Numbers Don't
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Posted about 1 month ago Politicians Lie, Numbers Don't
There is no secret about any of this. The figures below are all from the annual Economic Report of the President, and the analysis is primitive. Nevertheless, what these numbers show almost beyond doubt is that Democrats are better at virtually every economic task that is important to Republicans. In other words, there are no figures here about income inequality, or percentage of the population with health insurance, or anything like that. This exercise implicitly assumes that lower taxes are always good and higher government spending is always bad. There is nothing here about how clean the air is or how many children are growing up in poverty. The only point is that if you find the Republican mantra of lower taxes and smaller government appealing, and if you care only about how fast the economy is growing, not how that growth is shared, you should vote Democratic. Of course, if you do care about things like economic inequality and children's health, you should vote Democratic as well. Tab 1 reports the performance of the U.S. economy in seven categories from the years 1959 to 2007. (Where the President's Economic Report doesn't include figures for 1959 or 2007, those years are left out.) The most important measure of a nation's economic strength is gross domestic product. But comparing GDPs among various presidents would be unfair. Since the economy does tend to grow over time (or always has), more recent presidents would enjoy an unfair advantage. And every president inherits a situation; the question is what he does with it. So the measure I use is "Change in Real GDP Per Capita," which corrects for inflation and also for population growth. It asks: If the output of the economy were divided equally among the population, how would each share have changed during these years? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of the other measures, inflation is self-explanatory. So is unemployment. Federal taxes, spending, and the deficit are recorded as percentages of GDP: What part of the nation's economic output is commandeered by the government each year? How much of that does the government actually pay for, and how much does it finance by borrowing? And since defense spending is the one exception to the general dislike for government, figures are included for federal spending minus defense. At the bottom of Chart 1 is the average per year for every year of roughly the past half-century. I haven't cheated: These are the years the President's Economic Report reports. The results are surprising, I think. Tab 2 and Tab 3 figure separately the averages for years with Republican presidents and years with Democratic ones. Then Tab 4 compares those averages. On average, in years when the president is a Democrat, the economy grows faster; inflation is lower; fewer people can't find a job; the federal government spends a smaller share of GDP, whether or not you include defense spending; and the deficit is lower (or—sweet Clinton-years memory—the surplus is higher). The one category that Republicans win is, unsurprisingly, federal taxes as a share of GDP. But it is no trick to lower taxes if you don't lower spending. Among many objections that could be made to this calculation, some of them legitimate, one is that a president's economic policy doesn't work overnight. To account for that, Tab 5 goes back and recalculates everything with a one-year lag. That is, if George W. Bush's father was president in the years 1989 through 1992, inclusive (was he? Hard to believe …), his years of economic impact are assumed to be 1990 through 1993. This changes the result remarkably little. Republicans win in two of the seven categories, with a tiny .01 percent lead in lower inflation. Some people believe that the president has little or no effect on the economy. If so, that would be a serious flaw in this exercise. But it would also be a serious flaw in the exercise called democracy, since people tell pollsters that the economy is the most important issue for them in deciding whom to vote for. No doubt any particular bad year in any of these statistics can be explained by some extrinsic special event—a war, for example. But surely patterns that emerge over half a century account for these. At some point, if Republicans or Democrats tend to start more wars, and wars cost money, that can be a legitimate part of the calculation. Finally, as economist Greg Mankiw points out in his blog, reacting to a similar calculation by Alan Blinder (both of them former chairs of the president's Council of Economic Advisers), correlation is not causation. Maybe economic statistics are better when the president is a Democrat for reasons having nothing to do with the president's skill in handling the economy. My own feeling about that is that as long as the pattern continues, who cares why? Correlation will do just fine. Unfortunately the table won't transfer to the forum, but do go to the website to read it
Deb
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| Posted about 1 month ago This is the site, the information comes from Deb
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| Posted about 1 month ago For your consideration---- when you see posts such as these, click on the link, print off the materials and share them with friends- it has helped many of my friends better understand both politicians' stances/beliefs. |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Thanks Deb. This is fantastic. Ginny |
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| Posted about 1 month ago great article! |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Thanks all, it's the truth. Deb
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| Posted about 1 month ago Deb......you are BRILLIANT!!!!! I love your logical nature. Thank you so much for posting this. Is there anyway we could share it on the home page so more people could enjoy? My favorite parts.... " if you find the Republican mantra of lower taxes and smaller government appealing, .............. you should vote Democratic." "as long as the pattern continues, who cares why? Correlation will do just fine."
Melissa |
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| Posted about 1 month ago I'm not sure mg1021, it has to come from nursinglink not one of us. I can post it in the news. Thanks for the compliment and I've noticed not one McCain supporter has commented on this article. Deb
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| Posted about 1 month ago Ok I've posted this in the news, whether or not it is read anymore than it has been here, is another story Deb
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| Posted about 1 month ago Obama ad uses dated and out of context quotes to portray McCain as clueless on the economy. The ad opens with video of McCain saying, "I don't believe we're headed into a recession." But the clip comes from a response to a question at a Republican primary debate in South Carolina back in January. The date is shown in the ad, in the lower-right hand corner. McCain's quote is followed by a clip of a man from Ohio saying, "I think we're absolutely in a recession." While that man and others shown in the ad are talking about economic conditions now, this quote from McCain and another in the ad are from seven months ago, a fact that may not be apparent to viewers if they miss the fine print. Cook, April 17: I'm going to ask you a version of the Ronald Reagan question. You think if Americans were asked, are you better off today than you were before George Bush took office more than seven years ago, what answer would they give? Furthermore citing a reporter who says we should vote for democrats is hardly unbiased. Fox news has been repetively criticized for not being balanced. The news people have their opinions and they come out in their reports on both sides. Redneck I is...but bigot I taint! |
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| Posted about 1 month ago Well they both lie, but this isn't what this forum is about, it's about numbers by the government saying economically the US is almost always in a better economy when a Democrat is in office. Deb
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| Posted about 1 month ago I forgot to post that what I posted above was taken from factcheck.com not a reporter I was trying to paste and guess that part got lost somehow. Redneck I is...but bigot I taint! |
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| Posted about 1 month ago I agree with Deb! I think the fact that there is a correlation in the numbers, is fairly clear. Just as the name of the article reads....politicians (all politicians), constituents, people in general lie. I think an average of 5 times a day or something. But what's important is what are the actions of a politician, what outcomes have they achieved, and what are the results of their work. In this article, the results show that Dems accompany greater economic conditions. I too checked out the website that is referenced, and although it seems that the perspectives may be slanted if you only read one or two articles.....there are plently of articles listed that poke fun at Biden and Obama as well. It seems like a light hearted and comical yet thought provoking news magazine to me, and I appreciate that the article was based on a verifiable document issued by the white house. Regarding Obama's campaign ad, I think the fact that the dates were listed on the screen for all to see would suggest that they are not hiding anything. In my opinion, the fact that McCain was reluctant to recognize/acknowledge the signs about the economy as they were coming forth is a big deal. I also believe that may be the message from Obama's campaign. I think a lot of Americans, both Democrats and Republicans have been concerned about the economy for quite a while (even before January).....so proving that McCain was saying positive things about the economy back then versus of late is even more troubling to me. That tells me that he is either in denial or not very perceptive. Just my thoughts...... Melissa |
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| Posted 28 days ago Oh, Please. The government, no matter who is in office does not determine our economic stability! As a matter of fact, its when they got their hand in the pudding is when it went south. Barney Frank? Hello! Democrat! Chris Dodd, again a Dim. I am shocked and amazed that anyone can actually blame one party for this mishap. Several Republicans voted against the bail-out initially. Who was salivating to spend ,spend ,spend? Gee I don't know, look at the voting record. Then when it didn't pass, it was those babified Republican's faults. The bail-out has not helped has it? So, maybe those ole republicans were on to something. Oh, and Frank's former lover just happened to be on the board of Fannie-Mae. How convienent! Isn't that special?! Where's church lady when you need her!! No-one is unscathed. Including your precious Obama. The only thing that will get us out of this mess is us. The good ,honest ,hard working Americans who made this country what it is. Not some elected official. We will hopefully re-invent like we always have in the past. We don't need Big Brother government. They have already screwed things up enough,don't you think? Claire Kruszka |
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| Posted 28 days ago caringkind says ...
I think, when there are posts such as these in the future, we ought to rephrase what was said in the article and then direct the reader to the article link for referening the source. |
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| Posted 28 days ago Oh Claire.....you fire ball you!!!! I don't think the article is necessarily placing blame....it seems to me more like a..... interesting correlation they discovered! May be coincidence, but as the article says "correlation will do just fine" for me! So what did hubby say about this article? You should have him join nursinglink. LOL Melissa |
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| Posted 26 days ago teamrn says ...
I posted this to bring up a discussion, not rewrite someone else's work. I also posted the links. I didn't write this, nor did I make it up. One link is government, the other is the article. I'm not about to hand feed someone, just posting food for thought. Deb
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| Posted 26 days ago I agree. |
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| Posted 26 days ago dmazment says ...
Deb, I brought this up to make a point; we all want people to get the benefit of reading the article on the link. But first, It think we should paraphrase it in our nursinglink posts, referencing the link and then giving commentary that may be relevnt. I didn't mention you.I just thought it could avoid arguments if we all spoke from our own minids and referenced a link periodically. |



